Typical Questions and Answers on EBC Brakes
MOST OF YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED HERE PLEASE READ THOROUGHLY
We get too many general questions on e mail to answer all individually. Please continue
PLEASE DO NOT E MAIL US ASKING FITMENTS AS THESE WILL NOT BE REPLIED TO. (SEE POINT 2 BELOW)
If after reviewing these comments your question is still not answered please come back to us again and we will personalise the appropriate actions for you. For auto parts delivery issues in the USA, please contact a member of our USA team at firstname.lastname@example.org. Thanks.
Deliveries of products ordered from one of our distributors.
If you are awaiting delivery from your EBC supplier and consider the delay excessive you should do the following. First check the parts for your car on our website www.ebcbrakes.com catalog page to the current application info and note those details down. Then submit those parts to email@example.com. A member of our USA team will advise if the parts are LIVE ITEMS and if EBC has stock in its USA warehouse. If parts are live a member of our USA team will attempt to rush the supplier delivery or may in extreme cases agree to deliver parts direct to you. Please dont ask questions we cannot answer, the more specific you are the more intelligent your response will be we get asked I ordered brakes for my car and they have not come yet etc etc quite often.
Please note that we produce 96% of parts listed in our catalog. There are always some new items still in the tooling process and may take 4-6 weeks in those cases to be made available. Items which are live should normally be deliverable within 2 weeks at the outside and EBC will make every effort to expedite such deliveries. With several TENS OF THOUSANDS of orders per month we try as hard as we can to deliver within 10 days but on the odd occasion this does not happen. This is just the nature of such a complex brake program but we believe the best is always worth waiting for.
Applications, fitment questions and pricing
All our latest catalogs are on our website www.ebcbrakes.com under CATALOGS. These are in pdf or excel format and both types can be opened and searched using the Microsoft control f function. The front pages or headers of those catalogs tell you all about the different compounds we offer to help you make a choice. PLEASE DO NOT E MAIL US ASKING FITMENTS AS THESE WILL NOT BE REPLIED TO.
Pricing is only obtained by contacting a stockist or web retailer in your area, there are thousands of dealers listed on the WHERE TO BUY section of our website and plenty of top quality web retailers.
Squeal - Automotive Only!
Brake squeal often happens during the first few hundred miles of use as pads bed in to a new or used rotor. Provided that you have the latest engineering specification of pad with center line slots, edge chamfers and black noise reduction shims on the reverse of the pads, please wait until you have achieved 1000 miles of driving before evaluating brake noise. If you have EBC Brake pads that do not have these shims, and are located in mainland USA we will post these to you free of charge. In early production some EBC REAR fitment pads did not have noise shims. We offer to mail these free of charge if you have rear brake noise which is the most common. Rear brake noise can develop even when rear pads have NOT been changed as the more efficient front pads take up all the brake load and leave the original rear pads under-utilised. This will necessitate changing the rear pads to the same pads as in the front or if the original rears are also non shimmed, you may be able to solve with adding shims to those. Ask us for a free set of shims for those pads which we are happy to supply at no charge. It is quite common with performance pads to hear a once only screech when REVERSING from a cold start. This is because of the change in geometry of pad and rotor alignment in reverse motion. When driving forward the noise should not repeat.
or Wind Noise on EBC GD series Sport Rotors under heavy braking
Provided you have the latest spec 3 slot version of EBC sport rotors the noise levels are as low as they will go with a sport rotor. We recently changed from 5 slot to 3 slot to reduce noise issues. The slots have a purpose of drawing cool air under the pad contact point and are therefore beneficial. On the 5 slot rotors experience shows us that noise gradually reduces over a period of driving but it can take up to 2000 miles use before this reaches its lowest point after which the noise is there to stay, some people like it, some people dont. But if you are totally dissatisfied with the presence of this noise, please contact us again and we will come to a reasonable solution. There is ABSOLUTELY NO SAFETY ISSUE INVOLVED HERE.
EBC now also make their new Ultimax Black Dash series slotted rotors which feature narrower slots and no dimples. This design is significantly quieter. So why does EBC sell two types of sport rotor?
First the larger the slots (as on the 3GD series) the better the air cooling effect, tests on the UK Police Force Chase cars have shown the wide slots to be very helpful at speed at cooling the pad and rotor. Also the 3GD wider slots extend completely to the edge of the rotor and are better at removing dirt, dust, debris and water (making them ideal for off road uses).
On the other hand the narrower slots on the new Ultimax series provide SOME cooling and certainly degas the pads and are therefore a good upgrade option for street use at lower speeds.
People often ask "Do sport rotors really do anything??? and our honest answer is in most cases they do. First the cooling advantage is simple physics so YES they cool pads and rotors but the surface area reduction (again, simple physics) actually means LESS braking UNLESS you change the brake pads for a higher friction compound such as EBC to compensate. Every one of EBC pads offer significantly higher stopping than most aftermarket and OEM pads (according to our dyno tests) and one extensive independent vehicle test conducted on a closed race track in the UK on a Sport compact (Golf GTi) showed EBC pads to stop several car lengths faster than three popular USA aftermarket brands tested. Add this extra friction to the better cooling and you have better brakes.
Extra benefits of sport rotors are not often spoken about but are very worthwhile. This is the effect the slots have on maintaining a flat smooth pad surface during the pads wear life. The slots encourage the pads to wear with a more flat pattern and the Ribbing common with non slotted rotors does not appear. This removes the Record groove effect of pads on plain rotors, particularly around the outer edge and helps pads maintain better contact area with the rotor through their life. As far as EBC is concerned this is the MAJOR benefit of sport rotors over all others as honestly speaking EBC pads have such a high temperature rating they dont NEED degassing. We test all pads to temps over 1000 degrees.
Intermittent noises from rotors or rotor vibration
If sport rotors are not checked for runout, driving without even applying brakes will exhibit a clicking noise on a Once-per-rev of the wheel basis. If you encounter this, especially early after having rotors installed return them to the service shop and have them checked for runout. Recommendations for maximum permissible runout vary from 0.001 to 0.002 inches on most European cars to 0.003 to 0.006 on larger USA Trucks and SUVs. Figures above these are not only unacceptable but they will cause brake vibration after a period of 3000 to 4000 miles. (Read below in Blue please) which is not grounds for warranty. Mounting rotors on dirt or rust and scale covered hubs or excessive use of mounting greases and most often incorrect tightening of rotors from first install are the common reasons for excess runout. If your installer knows his job he will hand tighten the rotor studs in a diagonal fashion with gradually increasing torques by hand and final tighten with a TORQUE wrench and ideally you wont even see or hear an air gun being used. Guns (including air guns) are for cowboys and are often used by them.
Why do rotors suffer vibration after 3000-4000 miles and how can EBC be so precise in this mileage estimate, surely it cannot be the same for every car???????? this is a common question.
The reason the mileage is more or less the same for every car where vibration occurs is that the problem develops OFF BRAKE or when you are driving without applying the brake. The more freeway driving you do the more easily this can occur. The excess runout mentioned above caused in 90% of the cases by bad fitting and not checking for runout (and the other 10% due to a hub not running true such a car that has impacted a curb at some time) causes the pad to Kiss the rotor gently each revolution of the wheel as you drive. After the above mileage period the pads wear a microscopic thin spot on the rotor and a condition known as DTV occurs. This DTV (Disc Thickness Variation) causes the brake to pulse. A small amount of runout itself does NOT cause vibration but the tiniest amount of DTV does cause vibration. That is why when a rotor is not running true the car does not exhibit vibration in the first few miles and this explains how it shows up later (3000-4000 miles).
How can I cure this vibration problem ??????
Rotors will need to be turned at a machine shop or brake fitting center or replaced. EBC sport grooved rotors can be turned with good results on standard AAMCO brake lathes. If too badly scored or worn some rotors will have to be replaced. New pads will ALWAYS be needed.
Before taking your car to the shop, check if the vibration is coming from the front or the rear to save costs in unnecessary brake work. Generally vibration under braking that can be felt through the bodywork or seating of the car is a problem on the REAR brake and vibration felt on the steering wheel is related to FRONT brake problems.
What are the best pads to prevent or limit brake vibration????
Any good quality pad with a high thermal conductivity will reduce the chances of vibration both due to DTV as described above or vibration at speeds due to what we call thermal shock. Thermal shock is common on European cars and all pads in the EBC range are especially good at reducing vibration. Our online catalog recommends the minimum grades for your car and shows options.
Read this (June 06) comment from an EBC Brake user
I got the brakes in record time, less than 5 days, and put them on the weekend after. So far its been three weeks and the judder that Ive been fighting with hasnt appeared. I think we will be good to go for the duration. The first thing I noticed about the rotors was that they werent those blasted composite type that XX had stuck us with as original equipment and the same for XXXX (large chain store name deleted by EBC so we dont get our asses sued). These were all cast - fabulous! You cant imagine how many times I changed the brakes and had the rotors machined. I was concerned about dealing with an unknown (by me) internet company, you know its somewhat of a crap shoot online, but you guys came through with flying colors. Thanks!
From: Boonie Taylor
Some BRAKE DUST is inevitable from every brake pad and it is impossible to totally eliminate dust otherwise brake vibration will occur. We never advertise ZERO DUST we only advertise LESS DUST and we appreciate that in some cases dust will be almost the same as original pads. However, please note that dust is always more severe in the first 1000 miles of driving especially if pads were fitted to partly worn rotors. Another condition which promotes significant dust is wrong pad compound choice. If you have a car with over 200bhp (horse power) or drive above what we might call a spirited street level, for example green pads would not be suitable and red ceramic, being a slightly harder pad, can handle these higher speeds and loads and gives off less dust there may be cases of overload where the Green pads are carbonising in use and a higher spec pad (Red Ceramic) is needed. If you have been sold greens and need reds, go back to the dealer where you purchased them and ask him for some sort of a deal to get you onto the correct brake compound. Yellow compounds are a fantastic brake, probably our best but they are equal in dust to Original parts and should not be chosen if a low dust pad is what you need. Our CLEANEST pads are RED CERAMIC for sedans and Green 7000 series for SUV and light trucks.
Efficiency- when will these pads perform best
All EBC coloured range pads - green, red and yellow - are high mileage compounds. and you cannot expect their optimum performance straight out of the box. Brake effect will be GOOD and certainly SAFE but not at their BEST. Pads need to be bedded in geometrically which could take 400-600 miles, even on new rotors and after that pads have to final cure chemically which can take another 1000 miles. Experience shows us that out of the box all EBC pads perform equal to or better than OEM parts and most other aftermarket parts but they just keep getting better with time so hang in there - and please dont criticise the performance of the pads until they are fully bedded. Also during the life of the pads remember to monitor pad wear as half worn pads or more than half worn pads will cause a significant reduction in performance of the brake. In sport use and for optimum braking we recommend changing pads when there is 3/16 th inch (4mm) of friction material left on the steel backing plate and not to wear the pads any lower. Pads and calipers start to overheat when friction material goes below this level. Remember the faster and harder you drive, the faster pads will wear and a wrong spec pad could wear out surprisingly quickly so keep an eye on the pads, especially if you see more dust than expected. In race use wear will be MUCH faster.
Wear leads and audible wear indicators
Many Asian and USA vehicles use a rivet on screech clip, a small gold coloured metal clip in a U form that contacts the rotor as the pads are low and makes a loud noise to remind you of the need for pad replacement. You only need ONE clip per set of pads and that is all EBC use in most cases. There is NO NEED for multiple clips and there is no safety issue with less. Pads wear evenly unless there is a major caliper problem and one clip will alert you of a pad requiring replacement. This assumes of course your calipers are functioning properly and sliding freely which is part of any routine brake install work. It is always good practice to check pad wear every 3000-5000 miles anyway, whether or not you have indicators of any type on your car.
European cars usually use a wear lead wire to operate a dash warning light. For VW and Audi models the lead is GLUED into the pad and the EBC pad comes with a new lead in the pad. BMW, Mercedes and Saab models have LOOSE wear leads which CLIP into the top of the pad. We SELL these leads separately on vendors web sites or at the dealer that supplied you. We do not provide these loose leads in our sets as the price is considerable and leads do not always need replacement.
Bedding in EBC pads
In Street use situations
Bedding in when the red EBC surface coating (marked on the pads as Brake In) is applied.
Best procedure is to drive gently avoiding harsh braking unless in an emergency for first 100 miles. In the second 100 miles (up to 200) you can use gently increasing brake pressures when using the brakes.
Only after 200 miles urban driving (not 200 miles on a freeway where brakes are almost unused) should you attempt to apply heavy load and heat to the brakes. To do this final bedding on a QUIET ROAD in safe traffic apply the brakes and slow from 60 to 10 MPH five times in a row. Then drive slowly for a few minutes if safe to do so to allow the brakes to cool. Try to avoid coming to a rest whilst the brakes are heated.
A smell may be noticed from the warm brakes, this is normal. Repeat this procedure a second time after the brakes have TOTALLY cooled down. EBC pads get better with miles. Even after this bed in procedure it can take up to 1500 miles before the pads are at their best. In the meantime the pads will be good and safe but true potential not realised. EBC makes performance pads that last, they do not bed in within 5 minutes driving. Noises will be more likely during the first 1000-1500 miles use whilst this chemical bedding takes place.
NEVER attempt to sand or scotchbrite brake pads to assist it bedding in or noise reduction,this will only make things worse by taking the pads "Off-Flat" and require hundreds of miles driving to seat them again during which time the brakes will feel very dull. The only way to seat pads is against the rotor they will be used on and by following our bedding recommendation.
for trackday or race use
We remind you there is NO WARRANTY on any EBC product for race use due to the very varying conditions that can be seen. However, care bedding pads in and monitoring wear will get the best from our products.
Most EBC pads including Yellow range pads now have the brake in coating. If possible and using a street based car, fit the pads before the race use and bed in as above for street use. Try to get 200-300 miles urban driving on the pads before racing them. If this is NOT possible and you fit at the track bed like this.
Drive two laps steadily applying the brakes every few seconds and then coast for a full lap without any unnecessary braking to allow pads and rotors to cool down. Drive a third lap applying the brakes slightly harder each time and again drive a cooldown lap. Do NOT pull up and park the car with the brakes red hot, try to let them cool as much as possible before coming to a rest. It is also important to understand that the pads must be geometrically matched to the rotor (flat and parallel) before they will bed in chemically. If you do the above bed in and get violent fade first use you MUST repeat the bedding procedure. We get lots of new customers calling in saying my brakes have faded and when they send a digital the pad is only touching on 70-80% of its surface area. Fade early in a pads life is almost a good thing. It is called GREEN fade and will disappear so if you suffer Green fade (you will notice this by smell), you are on the right path and this is not a negative. If you are getting fade after 20 laps and the pads are part worn, then something else needs looking into such as material choice, bleeding of the system, driving style etc
Oversize Brake rotors and caliper kits
EBC does not make either of these and is not planning these for the immediate future. Sorry.
Fitting EBC rotors which have bearing cups installed
Many modern trucks have bearing cups pressed in the rotors. The EBC replacement rotors also have new bearing cups. Do not attempt to remove these.
If you are not a qualified mechanic you should NOT attempt installing such rotors and in all cases the manufacturers handbook should be observed. Wheels falling off cars or wheel bearings seizing is a serious matter.
Having said that our advice is to clean off excess old grease from the bearing cones (centre of bearing which locates the bearing rollers) with a CLEAN cloth and apply fresh axle grease to those bearings and pack the rotor hub one third full with the same grease. Do not use any grease that contains Molybdenum or sulphides, the correct grease is a lithium soap based grease with NO additives and is called in most places axle grease. The BIG message here is do NOT get any greases or even fingerprints on the braking surface of the rotor and on completing the install CLEAN the brake rotor with methylated spirit or brake cleaner and wipe with a VERY clean rag until no traces of greases or oils are seen on the brake.
Do I need to turn my rotors or fit new rotors when I buy/fit EBC Pads?
It is a complete waste of money to fit new pads if your rotors are badly scored or hollowed. It is also dangerous and can cause a total loss of brake. Check rotor surface condition with a straight edge and if there is more than 0.5mm or 0.020 inches (twenty thousandths) of hollow the rotors must be turned or replaced. This can be done by any brake centre or most machine shops. If you DO NOT turn or replace the rotors you will have low efficiency/dangerous brakes for the first 1000 or more miles and you will tramline your pads and damage them. This is a safety issue and we strongly recommend having a professional mechanic advise if you are not capable of measuring this yourself. With brakes the motto is Any doubts see a mechanic.
EBC can supply new rotors in plain finish OEM style at very competitive prices or sport slotted rotors of two versions. Sport rotors help braking, reduce fade and maintain parallel pad wear throughout the pads life.
Warranty and product returns
For products purchased through a dealership or shop, you must go back to the shop and have the return handled by them.
For products purchased over the internet, first read the above and if you have complied with all the recommendations e mail us with a description of your problem and we will decide if a warranty replacement is appropriate. We do not make cash refunds for items sold over the internet, our warranty is to replace with the same or better products to settle your claim. 90% of warranties are from drivers not complying with all the facts contained in the above Q and A sheet, so please make sure you read this because IF YOU MIS-DESCRIBE YOUR PROBLEM AND WE ISSUE AN RGA AND GET THE PRODUCT BACK AND THE CLAIM IS NOT JUSTIFIED the parts will be returned to you and you will have lost removal costs, freights costs and still be in the same situation. We try to be totally FAIR and HONEST with all consumers and respect your rights to have a product fit for purpose. EBC is a long term provider of quality brakes and is proud of its reputation in solving problems, listening to its customers and satisfying them.
14. Compound choices front and rear
It is important that your brakes are balanced to avoid rear wheel lock up and here are some good ideas how to select compounds or even blend them with whats on your car already. It is always best to use the SAME compound front and rear but if budget restraints prevent that,use this guide.
|OK to fit or have on rear|
|Ultimax||Ultimax or original|
|Greenstuff||Greenstuff, Ultimax or Redstuff or original|
|Redstuff||Redstuff or Original|
|Yellowstuff,Green,Red,Ultimax or original|
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